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MessaggioTitolo: Re: Nani   Nani - Pagina 18 Icon_minitimeGio Feb 13, 2014 5:24 pm

Non lo so...so solo che il gameplay ora è puramente arrocco
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MessaggioTitolo: Re: Nani   Nani - Pagina 18 Icon_minitimeGio Feb 13, 2014 5:36 pm

Oddio in realtà potete un pò aggare , calcolando che i girocotteri per 80/100 punti sono davvero aggressivi, che i martellatori in orda sono davvero tanti attacchi a fo 6/7 e che con un sapiente uso di minatori e ranger potete incanalarvi il nemico (anche usando il girobombo) , la via aggrosa è possbile in fondo , magari non marcerete per primi contro il nemico ma al 4°/5° lo andrete a prendere voi in mischia no?
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MessaggioTitolo: Re: Nani   Nani - Pagina 18 Icon_minitimeGio Feb 13, 2014 5:38 pm

E' tutto da testare
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MessaggioTitolo: Re: Nani   Nani - Pagina 18 Icon_minitimeVen Feb 14, 2014 10:11 am

Ho trovato questo estratto in inglese di un tizio che avendo il book ha stilato una sua osservazione dei nani , sembra ben fatto , potremo discuterne : Yes I have it. No I'm not posting pictures. The guys who have been coming here with the rumours have all been pretty much 100% correct.

I left my rant on Warseer. I'll lead this off with the notion that right now I think we're pretty hosed. I trust us to be an innovative lot, and I'm not hanging up my beard - not by a long shot - but this book was awful at first glance. I'm going to analyse each section - special rules, etc. I won't be posting costs. I'll just talk about the units, what I think they gained and lost, and how I think they will fit in an army.


Special Rules -


Ancestral Grudge: This rule is as it's been described publicly by White Dwarf. Roll at the beginning of the game before vanguard. You can either get hatred for your general vs theirs, your characters vs their characters, or your army vs. their army. This is a complete gain. Don't waste any runic allowance on anything that grants reroll to hit unless you really want them every turn. You're heroes, at the very least, will all have hatred against theirs, and there's a decent chance your army will have hatred versus their army. So, it's a half-baked hatred army wide rule, but it's fluffy and is a buff for even our humble shield warriors.


Dwarf Crafted: This rule makes it more likely that we will successfully stand and shoot. That's a good thing, I suppose, if you like shooty troops and the new Irondrakes.

Reoslute: +1 S on the charge. Half baked Chopa rule for dwarfs. Interesting. Mostly, I think Vertok took the Choppa rule and split it offensively and defensively between this and Shield Wall. This rule does have a lot of synergy with other attributes of the new book (Armor pen from runelords, etc).

Shieldwall: You get a +1 to parry in turn one.


Analysis - Funnily enough, the unit that gains the most from our special rules is our humble warrior with hand weapon and shield. With these rules, the shield dwarf could potentially have hatred, armor piercing (From a runedude). +1 S on the charge, and +1parry when charged.

Other units also benefit. Slayers become S4 when they charge, which at least gives them a -1 to their opponent's armor save. Or they can be S6 on the charge with Great Weapons.


Grade- Solid B. Good stuff. Has a lot of impact on the rank and file, including even Thunderers and Quarrelers.


------------------------------------------

armory: Gromril is the same. Dwarf Crossbows gained Dwarf Crafted. Dwarf Handguns lost +1 to hit and got dwarf crafted instead. Both are still move or fire (which is "I Swear too much", but whatever). Dwarf pistols are the same, but dwarf crafted.

Oath Stones - you can have more than one in a unit if you want, but there's not much use for it. Basically, this gives a buff to a shield unit, giving them parries in all directions and making it impossible to disrupt them. Given how easy stubborn is to come by, I'd say give this a pass.

Shieldbearers - Got more expensive by a decent chunk, but adds 2 wounds. Otherwise same as before, so totally worth it if you're investing in a Lord. Especially since our lords can't be anything even remotely unkillable anymore.

Grade: D-

Analysis - GW had an opportunity to make the Dwarfs into the army with the best crafted equipment in the old world, and failed miserably. Nearly every army has better armor saves, weapons, and gear than dwarfs now. None of our units can get an armor save like Empire, Elf, Chaos, etc cavalry or monstrous cavalry. It's bad. They really screwed up here. Had they made Gromril a base 3, and Scale a base 4, they would have, you know, actually made sense without overbuffing the army. They would have presented a real choice between hammerers and Ironbreakers. They failed to do so. If it wasn't for the Shieldbearer buff, they would have earned a failing grade.

---------------------------------------------

lords and Heroes:


Lords: Same statline. Same runic/heirloom allowance. All special rules. No more Royal Blood rule (this is key for hammerers - they lost that version of bodyguard, so fear and terror can now affect them). A shield becomes a poor man's 5+ parry in the first round. A great Weapon is the only cheap way to have good strength. Armor runes and Shield Bearers are all essential. You can build him up to be as strong as an Ogre Tyrant and just as tough, with a better armor save to boot. But he's never going to laugh off another truly killy lord again. At least his hammerers can just take chaos lords one at a time. But Vamp Lords will eat him for breakfast and spit him out. There's some runic combos to make him decently killy, but nothing that will blow your mind. Even the three runes of Fury will leave him languishing at S4 while his foes laugh off his child-like tantrum with their low armor saves that he can't affect.

Thane: Bumped up to leadership 10. This is a good thing. He can be a discount lord. His runic allowance can give him a decent armor save, or an extra wound and toughness if you want. Stick a Great Weapon on him if you like. He will never be as tanky as our previous Thane, because GW thought it would be so cool if we had no access to the Dawnstone or anything like it. GRRRRR. But, he's a cheap LD 10 for the army.

Master Engineer: Lost a Ballistic skill. Because...well...because stuff. Or something. Anyway, same cost as before, same runic allowance, and his ability to affect a nearby warmachine is unsurprisingly like the Empire's (because we couldn't have dwarf engineers be better at their job than the Umgi, now could we? But I digress). He gets a full on LOS to a war machine in 3", which is nice. He can still entrench. He makes a good Organ Gun sitter. But he's not cheap. Can't think of the runes I might put on him, to be honest. Stone, maybe?

Runesmiths: Sigh. I lament the runesmith of old, the ones who could actually defend his people from the wicked magic of man, elf, and our demented cousins in the chaos wastes. Their day has passed. NOW THEY GET MAD AND WE GET ARMOR PIERCING. And that's in caps because I want it to be more awesome than it feels. It's not bad.

There is literally no reason what so ever to take a Runelord unless you want to stuff some book magic items on him (the ring of booming or the horn of "I have lots of hammerer attacks lulz"). Armor piercing is nice. Stick him in cheaper units to maximize the benefits.

The Anvil of Doom is written in the language of Mordor, which I shall not utter here. You get 3 worthless innate spells, your Runelord gets stuck on an anvil that's vulnerable as all hell and functions like a war machine, and you get one whole bonus die to cast or to dispel! Gee, Beav, that's swell! Leave it on the shelf, or turn it into interesting unit filler. That's really all it's good for.

Dragon Slayer - One of my greatest disappointments in the book is the change to slayer strength. It no longer reduces a foes' armor. This is huge, actually. A lot of monsters have a decent armor save, and the only saving grace for Slayers was that if that monster was really tough, the wounds we did stuck. Now they won't. Anywho. Dragon Slayers do multiple wounds when attacking monsters. I don't know if that covers monstrous infantry, cavalry, or beasts. Or if it's just monsters. So bully if you can get on that Dragon. He'll probably do some harm. Deamon Slayers inexplicably can't do that. Instead they have an innate Other Trickster's Shard. For this, he costs a significant chunk more than he used to. Neither of them can take any runic items besides weapons, which means no ward saves, dodge saves, or any of that.

Grade: C/C-

Analysis - Our heroes are less tanky than they ever were. Runesmiths and Runelords are laughably useless. The Anvil of Doom is a complete waste of points. Slayer Heroes are a little better than before. Thanes improved some. So, yeah. Meh. They could have made Lords inherently stubborn, or base S5, or something. I don't know.

-------------------------------------

Core:

Warriors: Really excellent in both forms, given our army wide abilities and passive buffs available.

Thunderers/Quarelers: These guys are now Warriors that shoot. They are more expensive, have the same armor, and can take the same upgrades. And as such, they benefit from the same special rules. So, thunderers with a shield are a bit less accurate, but they have shieldwall and resolute. Both cost a decent amount more than a normal warrior, but the extra added shooting may be worth it. Our ballistic skill, sadly, still sucks. However, they got Heavy Armor.

Longbeards: Expensive, solid core infantry. If you don't want to spend any more points in core than you have to, these are your guys. Great models, too. You get a regular size runic banner, so they can easily be stubborn or have vanguard, or slowness. The banners are actually good, but it means spending a lot more points on them per model. I think of our banners as our own dwarfy version of a Mark of chaos. Shields are good, they benefit from all rules, and great weapons are still good. But damn, are these guys expensive. GW Longbeards cost just as much as hammerers, and hammerers are clearly better. Immune to psych may be a very good upgrade for them. Old Grumblers is the same as it ever was.


Grade: B/B+


Analysis: Our core is truly good. We don't have much in terms of options, just slow plodding dwarfs, but they are points efficient and/or excellent troops.
---------------------------------------------

Special -

Anyway -

Hammerers: Easily the best unit in our army book. They really, really want to sell the new hammerer models. Hammerers have a banner that can take half again as many points in runes as any other magic banner in the army. Their base attack stat is 2. The Keeper of the gate can take a runic weapon (more on this in a moment - it's really worth considering). They have all the special rules, though one questions why the holy hell they got Shieldwall. Perhaps if you want your unit champion to go with a runic weapon and shield it could be important? I dunno. Anyway. Kingsguard is hilarious. Any hammerer can accept a challenge for the Lord, and that's really kind of cool. Oh, it's Throgg again...tee hee...tee hee. Is that an unkillable Chaos Lord I see? Well, he gets to do one wound this turn.

ironbreakers: Ironbreakers are just as expensive as Hammerers, have less attacks, gain 1 point better armor save, and have a 5+ parry every turn. They also have a base LD of 10, which means they can function on their own quite well as a front line unit if you decide to leave off a Thane or Lord as your general. They get a regular sized runic banner, so you can make them Stubborn or give them Vanguard or slowness or what have you. Good unit, very expensive. Would be fine as a stubborn unit 20 strong or so with a killy character. I don't think they are as good as hammerers. If GW would have pulled it's head out of it's butt and gave them a 2+ base with Gromril, then there would be real competition between the two units. As it stands, hammerers or bust. Ironbreakers are cool, but they really didn't deserve a points increase, even with their stat bonus to LD and Shieldwall . I can see these guys being a candidate for a runestone thane or Lord.

The can also take a Cinderblast Bomb - a short range S3(6) stone thrower thing (really short range) that's got AP. It's like a tiny pigeon bomb. You can move (not march) and shoot it. So I suppose if you use the rune of slowness, you'll be able to use this to maybe get a nice softening strike against a unit that's about to charge you again.


Slayers: Slayers are...I don't know... different now. They are a little more expensive. They gained Deathblow. It can be directed at any enemy model in base contact. This is interesting, because it's going to cause some rules arguments. Lots of them, I imagine. For now, I'll be taking as many of these attacks as my opponents agree to. If someone died, it's because they were in base contact. They can't be struck otherwise. Therefore all dead slayers get one. That’s my thinking and I’m sticking to it.

However, you can't use the Deathblow on impact hits. This change *SUCKS*, both from a fluff perspective and a mechanics perspective. One of the things we get screwed on is impact hits tearing apart our infantry before it gets to strike. Slayers don't get the armor piercing bonus of increased strength due to Slayer Strength - they just wound on 4's. In other words, use great weapons, because otherwise your wounds aren't going to take against most enemies. They do have resolute, they are unbreakable, they can get hatred, and they get a 50 point magic banner. Ultimately, I think they came out ahead. Enough to use them in a normal build? I don't know. Enough to take them over hammerers? Only if you're feeling fluffy. Giant Slayer Shenanigans are still a thing. Giant Slayers can have runic weapons like Hammerers can. Again, that's useful. And, there’s no unit max, so if you want a massive tarpit of unbreakable crazy people, go for it.

Miners: Miners got cheaper. They are the same price as a normal GW Warrior, and that’s pretty amazing. Drill adds +1 to arrival, so they will probably arrive turn 2. No more anvil charge shenanigans, but these guys will make solid back field hunters for war machines. They can also make solid flankers, etc. I think they did good on these. Their little bombs are odd, and kind of a waste of points, I think.

Cannons – More expensive by about 1/3. Large runic allowance but you won’t need anything more than the usual, I think. We can no longer add a normal engineer, so this much more expensive cannon is much more vulnerable to the much better chariot cannons that other armies have. Sigh. Double sigh. Triple freaking sigh. But, it’s a cannon, and cannons are cannons.

Bolt Thrower – Got inexplicably more expensive, and you can no longer take an engineer upgrade, so it’s got crappy ballistic skill and a large runic allowance…because..um…I don’t know. They want people to make bad lists or something. Leave it off the army list, in my book. It’s "I Swear too much".

Grudge Thrower – now our cheapest base war machine. You can rune it up almost as good as before. There’s a rule that will need to be clarified about two runes of Penetration. When I roll to wound, does that include all the dice to wound? If so, then a second rune of penetration might be worth it to use on that big GT hit against T3 infantry like elves. I think that, when it comes to keeping prices low, Grudge Throwers with Accuracy, Penetration, and Forging may be the new black.

Gyrocopter – This is clearly the new GW favorite. It’s amazing. For the same cost as a grudge thrower you get a flying little gunner that can play many roles in the movement phase. His template will hit much harder against blocks of low T infantry. His little bombs are actually kind of lame, though. You can’t shoot if you use them, and you may as well just land and turnabout and shoot. But they’re there for situations when that’s not possible. The secondary gun has uses, but I think those are few. Solid special choice.

Grade: A. Special is where the money is. And we can’t have all our toys. The biggest problem is the runic tax to make these infantry units really shine. It’s going to add up, and cost us cannons, grudge throwers, and gyros. We might have to look to Rare for solid artillery support.

------------------------------------------------

Rare:


Organ Gun – same cost as before, but can take a large runic budget. And it will need to. The new rules mean you will want this thing to reroll misfires (hello Rune of Forging), and you will want it to be accurate (hello rune of accuracy). You may want a Master Engineer to use it as his personal firearm. With all of that added in, it’s pretty awesome. But now it suffers from cover (So no more tucking it in behind your lines and shooting over your boy’s heads).

Flame Cannon – Much better than before. Same cost, but can be runed. Forging is your friend. Even penetration would be good, increasing it to S6 and really making those Monstrous Infantry and cavalry cry. I’m thinking this is my new heavy hitter (And of course I don’t own one. So time to get creative…).

Rangers: Same cost as hammerers. However, they have scout, throwing axes, heavy armor, great weapons – they are pretty awesome. They also come in small groups of 5+ if you want, so you can sort of use them as chaff or war machine hunters. Sadly, they are not skirmishers. No banner access, either. A solid choice for an ambush army.

Irondrakes: The new hotness. Slightly more expensive than a hammerer, these guys carry a brutal gun. However, they also suffer from "I swear too much" dwarf ballistic skill. They have solid armor, a 2+ against flaming, and can take a grugni-be-damned missile launcher. Their guns are quick to fire, so they make ideal war machine guards and flanking units. They have a magic banner, so you can do some shenanigans there, too (vanguard, for instance). Decent bunker for a BSB that’s hauling around a magic standard and is vulnerable. I don’t know if it’s an autoinclude, though. Honestly, they’re expensive, and have crappy aim. And we have no way to buff that aim besides Grimm, who could give them rerolls. They are LD10.
gyrobomber : I keep wanting to believe this is worth it. It’s kind of expensive, and the bombing is awesome. The clatter gun is decent. But it’s squishy for a lone monster – T5 and 3 wounds. And frankly, our magic defense isn’t what it used to be. It becomes a mobile template weapon, but so are the Gyrocopters, and the S/AP is the same. The Bomber can hit more models with the bigger template…but I don’t know. I’d hate to waste it on a redirect, etc. It’s not much better at clearing chaff or hunting war machines than a gyrocopter. I suppose the double bomb can take out an ogre or two…

Grade: A-/B+

Analysis - Special is where our army is made or broken, and points are at a premium. You have choices in terms of playstyle, and most of them will be made manifest by the decision you make in this category.

---------------------------


Ancestral Heirlooms – These are our magic items. We were denied access to the items in the book, and they developed these…marvels...to compensate.

Hammer of Karak Drazh – Great name, crappy hammer. +3 initiative, and it makes enemies fight on initiative 1 if they actually take a wound. Unfortunately, those wounds would come in at S4, at best with armor piercing, MAYBE S5 if you get the charge. And the hammer adds +3 init. So. Um. Yeah. Pass it up. Too expensive.


Red Axe of Karak Eight Peaks –

Great against Orcs and Skaven. Except that whole “still only hitting at S4..” This is actually a curse for most of our weapon runes and magic weapons. It’s like Vertok didn’t realize that everyone’s fighting 1+ and 2+ armor saves these days, and S is really important. Anyway. Another waste of space.

Magnificent Armor of Borek Beetlebrow – Kind of a half assed attempt to restore the Master Rune of steel. Offers a 3+ ward against S6 blows, and a 2+ base Armor Save. Good for a lord on their feet. Too expensive for a Thane.

Silver Horn of Vengeance, or “Silver Horn of OMGHAMMERERSKILLINGEVERYTHING”.

This is nice. Not only does it cause fear in Egli (yawn, they will never fail their test), but it gives any unit within 6” gets devastating charge. Used in conjunction with the Rune of Slowness or careful Gyrocpoter redirection, this could be one of the shining lights in our otherwise less than stellar revamp.

Firery Ring of Thori – Decent little breath weapon upgrade. Got some points to spare? Fighting trolls or the damnable beasts of nurgle. Wel, here’s your chance to do something funny. Not great, but not bad.

Banner of the Lost Holds – Very expensive magical banner that gives us the ability to fight in extra ranks. If you really want a hammerer death star, this is your baby. This plus the Horn on a horde that gets in fresh would work out to be upwards of 60 attacks or more.

Grade: D/D-. No runed great weapons, no weapons that really smash faces in. One *good* item, one decent set of armor. That’s it.



---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------


Runes – Work pretty much the same, but you won’t be putting duplicates on items anymore. In other words, you won’t have two or more spell breakers on one runesmith or lord.

Weapon Runes –

Master Rune of Skalf Blackhammer – Same cost, nerfed. It used to confer Strength at the level needed to wound on a two. Now it wounds on twos, but your opponent’s heroes will laugh and laugh as they shrug off your blows on the 1+ rerollable armor save that you used to know and love.

Master Rune of Smiting: Less expensive, does the same thing. This one is good.

Master Rune of Alaric the Mad: Same as before. So, not bad.

Master Rune of Breaking: Expensive. Breaks stuff.

Master Rune of Dragon Slaying: Really, really stupid. Take for fluffy battles. Seriously, GW, wtf were you thinking on this one?

Master Rune of Flight: Cheaper. Not an auto snipe, but could be funny for the lulz against monsters.

Master Rune of Snorri Spanglehelm : This one is amazing. Hit on 2+. It’s cheap.

Master Rune of Swiftness: Same as it ever was.

Rune of Deamon Slaying: Stackable. Cool against deamons. Probably too spendy to take unless you’re doing something themed or fluffy, or have a lot of deamons in your meta.

Rune of Fire: More expensive. Stacks for a lot of points to do something silly to regenerating monstrous critters (multi wound breath weapon). Costs twice what it used to in order to get a flaming weapon.

Rune of Fury: A bonus attack, then frenzy, then a quasi-Red Fury style ability. Of course, this takes up all your runic slots on the weapon, so you’ll be pathetically swinging a whole lot as the enemy Lord laughs off your puny S4 swings. Ugh.

Rune of Might: This is solid. Cheap multi wounds and heavy hits against high toughness.

Rune of Striking: Meh. Bonus weapon skill and rerolls, which you don’t need because hatred.

Grudge Rune: This is a nice buff for a character that you know will get into it with an enemy of your choice.

Rune of Speed: Does what it says on the tin.

Rune of Parrying: Very nice new rune. -1 to be hit in close combat is solid, and the only way in the Old World for a Slayer hero to survive a bit.

Grade: B-/C+

The trouble with the weapon runes is the nerfing of what we can do against armor. I think they assume one pip of armor pen from a Runesmith or Lord is just too much or something. I don’t know. You can make a decently killy or tanky character now, but nothing like before. All in all, the cheapest option will be to spend points on Armor and Talismans and then just go with the good old fashioned great axe to the face. Very few of these runes are a better value for the points than +2S for the cheap cost of a great axe.


--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------


Armor Runes

Master Rune of Admant: T10! Hilarious. Expensive. And silly.

Maste Rune of Gromril: Little more expensive, but same as it ever was.

Rune of Fortitude: Stackable for a lot. Worth it at level 1, but not beyond I don’t think

Rune of Iron: Stackable – this one is the new wonder boy. Cheap bonus wound, relatively cheap bonus wound and toughness. Third step sucks (Regen)

Rune of Shielding: Same as it ever was.

Rune of Preservation: Nerfed. Does nothing with poison, blocks KB and HKB at a 2+. Same price. Grumble grumble.

Rune of Impact: Impact hits (1). No, I’m not kidding. It gives you an impact hit. Because..I don’t know. At least it’s cheap.

Rune of Stone: Same as it ever was.


grade: C+/B-. We can make our lords tougher in terms of their T, or their Wounds, but we lost our rerolls, and that’s really crappy. There are so many armies with better armor than ours, and lords that are not only better killers but better tanks. It’s kind of depressing, because you want your dwarf lords to be absolute nightmares on the field. And they aren’t.



-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Banner Runes, or, as I like to call them “AWESOMETAXBECAUSEMAGIC”


Our magic phase is in our army design phase, and we spend our points on little wizards called runic banners. These banners provide amazing buffs to units and nearby units, and the largest of them can be put on a hammerer’s banner.

Master Rue of Groth One Eye: Stubborn in a 12” Radius. Goes on a Hammerer banner. Seriously, if you want an unmovable three unit battle line, this in hammerers plus two units of great weapons, as little hero power as you can manage, and as much firepower as you can manage. It’s furgil’s list on crack.


Master Rune of Stromni Redbeard: Bonus to combat resolution. Bleh.


Master Rune of Valaya: Our only way to get a +4 total on dispel attempts. So very tempting, so very expensive, and may be a necessary evil. Sucks, because then you can’t Groth a group of hammerers, you have to take the damn Valaya banner.


Master Rune of Grugni: I will miss you, Grugni. You were so awesome. Now you make my BSB weak because you won’t go on any other banner but his. Sure, you protect him a bit better than most, but you just aren’t as awesome as you once were. My war machines are even more vulnerable to Ironblasters and Skill Cannons now.

Rune of Battle: Stacked up, this is evil. Stacked up, it’s stupid expensive and takes up your entire BSB rune banner allowance. Sigh. Fits at level two on a hammerer banner, offers +3 to combat resolution to the unit. Like they would need it…


Rune of Slowness: This one is excellent. It will help us set up counter charges, which take advantage of Resolute.

Basically, you can subtract a d6 from the enemy’s distance. Biggest version will only go on a BSB banner, but makes them have ASL if they make it in. Probably a great rune for Irondrakes and Shield Longbeards.


Sanctuary: Magic Resistance. Meh.

Stoicism: Stubborn. Amazing banner. Pretty cheap.

Strollaz: Vanguard. Another Winner. Pretty cheap.
Courage: Immune to Pysch. Better than it used to be as a result.

Ancestor Rune: Same as before, but twice the price. Ouch. Cannot take more than one.


Grade: A-. They aren’t truly amazing because they constitute a heavy PPM cost on whatever unit you put them in, making hammerers and Ironbreakers as expensive as Elf elites when all is said and done. But, this is where our magic happens. We use these banners to pre buff our troops because our magic defense is horrid now and we have no magic phase of our own to speak of, since the Anvil of Doom isn’t worth the resin it’s cast in.


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Talismanic Runes

Master Rune of Balance: Go to hell, GW. Same cost, only works on a 4+. Got a lucky die? By all means buy it. Otherwise, it’s useless.


Master Rune of Spite: Hits back when you take a wound. Um. I dunno. Could be cool?


Master Rune of Passage: You and your unit don’t take Dangerous Terrain Tests. It’s cheap. At first I laughed, but then I remembered Gnoblar Trappers and Curse of Anrahir. And I thought to myself – only if I have 10 points left and nothing else to do with it, or if I need to differentiate one talisman from another on a pair of runesmiths.

Rune of Warding: Ward Save, Stacks like BRB ones.


Rune of Spellbreaking. Go to hell, GW. Works like before except two of them stack into a Spell Eater and you can’t get any more on a talisman. Also, cannot be used to dispel RIP spells.
I have a question about the rules, but I’ll ask those later.

Rune of Luck – look, ma, a reroll.

rune of the Furnace- Ubiquitous 2+ vs fire. Same as it ever was.

Grade: F/D-. The changes to our magic defense were unwarranted given our lack of a magic phase of our own. Ugh.

Engineering Runes

MR of Immolation: Blow up yer warmachines for a bunch of S4 hits, or let it kersplode when they kill it. Eh. Not worth the cost.


Master Rune of Disguise: This one is good if you have the points to blow. Hard cover for a machine.


Rune of Penetrating: +1S, second rune lets you reroll a single to wound roll. Rules question about this one.


Stalwart Rune: +1 Combat Resolution for the crew. Same cost as an engineer upgrade. I’d prefer the engineer, GW.

Rune of Accuracy: Bonus to hit or reroll on scatter. Probably one of our best runes in the category.

Rune of Forging : Goes on everything! Must have rune for basically all war machines. Which basically means all our war machines are actually 25 points more expensive than their listed price.

Flak’s Seeking Rune: Um, I suppose this is a cheap way to get a bonus to hit deamon princes with a bolt thrower. But bolt throwers are terribad…so yeah.


Rune of Burning: Same as it ever was.

Grade: B. Solid runes, but make our war machines that much harder to take in bulk. I suppose that’s the point. The machines we take will be very reliable, and that’s cool.
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MessaggioTitolo: Re: Nani   Nani - Pagina 18 Icon_minitimeVen Feb 14, 2014 10:41 am

Ok, è la volta buona che mollo WH. Mamma GW onestamente vaffanculo.
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MessaggioTitolo: Re: Nani   Nani - Pagina 18 Icon_minitimeVen Feb 14, 2014 10:43 am

c'è qualche anima pia che mi fa una traduzione?
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MessaggioTitolo: Re: Nani   Nani - Pagina 18 Icon_minitimeVen Feb 14, 2014 10:44 am

Spartagor ha scritto:
c'è qualche anima pia che mi fa una traduzione?
Si: ci hanno aumentato i costi per o lasciare le cose com'erano o nerfarci.
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MessaggioTitolo: Re: Nani   Nani - Pagina 18 Icon_minitimeVen Feb 14, 2014 10:47 am

Sembrerà brutto , ma io sinceramnte credo che li proverò invece , temo (per i vecchi giocatori) che hanno un pò (eufemismo) cambiato le regole per favorire proprio un altro gioco sui nani piuttosto a  quello vecchio (arrocco + incudine) ; adesso ad'esempio mi tenta l'idea di una linea di fanti accompagnati da unità da tiro (magari un paio di irondarkes piccole ai fianchi) , ranger da 5 che impantanano l'oppo insieme a unitine da 5 sventra , minatori che sbucano da dietro e girobombi/cotteri che volano su e giù sul nemico sganciando di tutto (ovviamente almeno un cannone e una scaglia nel retro) . L'idea è fare una marea inarrestabile di metallo che avanza sotto i colpi di fucili , lanciafiamme e artiglieria ....

Butto giù due spunti strategici :
-Linea centrale composta da martellatori infoiati (tanti , runati e arrabiati)
-fianchi dei martellatori , 2 unità non piccole di balestrieri (gittata) scudo e ascia (per sfruttare shield wall)
-fianchi estremi , 2 unità piccole di di irondrakes
-dietro una scaglia e forse un paio di cannoni (dipende dal costo runico)
- 2/3 unitine di ranger per infastidrlo e magari prendere le macchine
- 2/3 unitine di sventra per andare a infastidire il nemico
- 2 unità da 10 circa minatori
- girococotteri e bombi

se l'avversario avanza , sto fermo e sparo con tutto , più si avvicina , più aumenta il tiro , inoltre ho alte probabilità di prendere eventauli fianchi .
se sta fermo subisce il tiro e la morsa , seppur leggera , di sventratori , minatori e ranger
ad un certo punto avanzo anche con i martellatori per  finire chi rimane
in tutto questo i giro fanno avanti e indietro tra uno scenico e d un altro (20 " di movimento) , bombardando e fiammeggaindo le truppe nemiche

Come strategia teme ovviamente i soli e i pozzi ma vorrei far notare che la fase magica si vocifera verrà stravolta nella nona (magari si tirano i dadi con il numero di resistenza magica dell'unità , cosa che rirenderebbe i nani spalati) . Per il resto in compagnia non vedo tutti sti soli e pozzi (torne è un altra storia) , sennò volano sganassoni sull'oppo .
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MessaggioTitolo: Re: Nani   Nani - Pagina 18 Icon_minitimeVen Feb 14, 2014 11:18 am

Magisternox, sarà ma a me sembra ancora più radicata sull'arrocco/controcarica e con le "unitine" ci fai na sega.
c***o siamo la razza per eccellenza di fabbri e non ci danno il TA 1 binato e un TS ridicolo! Ci danno R7 in un'edizione in cui Fo 3 con il 6 può ferire un R7!
Scusate ma ho veramente i coglioni in giostra.
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MessaggioTitolo: Re: Nani   Nani - Pagina 18 Icon_minitimeVen Feb 14, 2014 11:25 am

con tutte le razze finisce sempre allo stesso modo. Per fare l'esempio degli HE fino a poco prima dicevano: cavallerie mostruose di semidraghi/leoni, Armatura di drago al 4+, carretti volanti con i lanciafiamme sopra, fanteria base con GA, Lancieri economici, Maiden guard, magia starpotente... e poi alla fine non è arrivato un chezz... 

GW Trolling level over 10000000
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MessaggioTitolo: Re: Nani   Nani - Pagina 18 Icon_minitimeVen Feb 14, 2014 11:59 am

Testerò il libro, vedrò ti tirarci fuori qualcosa di buono...in alternativa venderò i miei nani e mi dedicherò ai miei Cryx/iniziare i Blood Ravens tutto in prox (soldi a GW non ne voglio più dare)
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MessaggioTitolo: Re: Nani   Nani - Pagina 18 Icon_minitimeVen Feb 14, 2014 12:10 pm

Li piccole unità invece possono redere adesso , prima avevate -1 alla fuga , ora potete giocare di sponda e portare il nemico a cariche obbligate per poi fuggire (poco nanico ok ) , i sventra lasciano sempre almeno una attacco a  capoccia (a forza 6 se con grandi armi) , mentre i giro sono entrambi dei bei bombaroli... Ovviamente io sono inflazionato dal giocare O&G (probabilmente l'esercito che più si avvicina allo stile di combattimento dei nani) per cui trovo sempre utili le piccole unità mobili (me li sogno io una cosa come i ranger) . Sono curioso poi di conoscere i personaggi speciali , a parte belegar e ingegnere non si sà nulla .
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MessaggioTitolo: Re: Nani   Nani - Pagina 18 Icon_minitimeVen Feb 14, 2014 12:17 pm

Vedrmeo, domani ritiro il libro
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MessaggioTitolo: Re: Nani   Nani - Pagina 18 Icon_minitimeVen Feb 14, 2014 12:43 pm

la bastardata sulle spezzaincantesimi taglia la testa al toro se ancora c'era una possibilità di eccellere in qualcosa, per un parere completo aspetto domani
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MessaggioTitolo: Re: Nani   Nani - Pagina 18 Icon_minitimeVen Feb 14, 2014 1:10 pm

ONESTAMENTE PENSO CHE SE DOBBIAMO FARLA PAGARE ALLA GW L'UNICO MODO E' NON COMPRARGLI UNA BEATA MINCHIA!!!!

SNORRI CAPISCO LA TUA FRUSTRAZIONE, CON NOI NANI E' SEMPRE LA SOLITA STORIA!!

VOGLIO PROPRIOVEDERE APPENA RIFARANNO GLI SKAVEN!
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MessaggioTitolo: Re: Nani   Nani - Pagina 18 Icon_minitimeVen Feb 14, 2014 1:11 pm

Lord White Dwarf gentilmente evita caratteri maiuscoli in grassetto.
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MessaggioTitolo: Re: Nani   Nani - Pagina 18 Icon_minitimeVen Feb 14, 2014 1:18 pm

Ok!

Scusa ma mi stanno girando alla velocità della luce! Diavolo  Mitra  Muro
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Snorri Ulversson ha scritto:
Testerò il libro, vedrò ti tirarci fuori qualcosa di buono...in alternativa venderò i miei nani e mi dedicherò ai miei Cryx/iniziare i Blood Ravens tutto in prox (soldi a GW non ne voglio più dare)


Per me sarebbe una cosa difficile per due motivi:
1) amo i nani
2) li ama anche mio figlio di 6 anni!

E poi se penso che ho circa 18.000 punti di nani impiegherei non so quanto per disfarmene... Arrendo
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MessaggioTitolo: Re: Nani   Nani - Pagina 18 Icon_minitimeVen Feb 14, 2014 1:29 pm

Beh ripeto cercherò di spremere il massimo da questo libro
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MessaggioTitolo: Re: Nani   Nani - Pagina 18 Icon_minitimeVen Feb 14, 2014 1:33 pm

Signori , finchè esiste gente che gioca i TK non penso che qualcuno possa lamentarsi dell'impossibilità di giocare un esercito , per carità hanno nerfato i vostri punti chiave , ma avete abbastanza cose nuove da potervi più che divertire (inoltre , ci scometto un boh che stamperanno roba nuova per voi nel prossimo mese , con regole sbagliate in un formato a pagamento e a parte , tristemente) . Avete finalmente la possibilità di schierare un esercito completo e non più 20 macchine e 2 tizi a caso , per non parlare del fatto che la Gw l'ha spoilerato che in Nona rivedrà la questione delle TA e la fase magica  , che ne sapete che tra 5/6 mesi la vostra roba non vi renderà i più svacchi in warhammer ? In soldoni , per me che potrei iniziarli ora sono un bel prodotto , con ampia scelta di personalizzazione e tattica , mentre per chi giocava prima è ovviamente un nerf (la tattica in soldoni è avvicinare nuovi giocatori) .
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MessaggioTitolo: Re: Nani   Nani - Pagina 18 Icon_minitimeVen Feb 14, 2014 1:35 pm

"con ampia scelta di personalizzazione e tattica"su questo mi riserbo di dissentire dopo aver il LdE in mano
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MessaggioTitolo: Re: Nani   Nani - Pagina 18 Icon_minitimeVen Feb 14, 2014 2:36 pm

Raga aspettiamo e vediamo, io ora non lo prenderò per un bel po' perchè con 40€ piuttosto mi prendo altre guardie imperiali per la megapartita, quindi non sarò in grado di riportare le regole, ma le commenterò!
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Snorri Ulversson ha scritto:
Testerò il libro, vedrò ti tirarci fuori qualcosa di buono...in alternativa venderò i miei nani e mi dedicherò ai miei Cryx/iniziare i Blood Ravens tutto in prox (soldi a GW non ne voglio più dare)
stiamo calmi...
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MessaggioTitolo: Re: Nani   Nani - Pagina 18 Icon_minitimeVen Feb 14, 2014 3:21 pm

da giocatore Lizard capisco bene la vostra frustrazione, perchè anche l'esercito che io gioco è stato ucciso. Però devo dire che dopo qualche giocata ci si abitua, anche se ovviamente la vittoria è più difficile... ma sconfiggere eserciti notoriamente più potenti del proprio è appagante. In ogni caso io cercherei di non vedere tutto nero: di certo il modo di giocare i nani non sarà cambiato molto, ma è pur vero che la stragrande maggioranza dell'esercito ha movimento 3 e quindi penso che fosse anche abbastanza scontato che la tattica dei nani rimanesse la stessa. In ogni caso avete guadagnato un'unità mobile e performante con i girocotteri, e un motivo per caricare il nemico quando sarà a pochi pollici dalle vostre linee e indebolito dal tiro... tiro che sarà ancora potentissimo. Il corpo a corpo sembra migliorato rispetto al passato, e anche se avete perso nella dispersione avete comunque modi per disperdere con un bonus pari a +4 e accesso a più di una pergamena di dispersione, quindi restate sopra la media in questo ambito. Capisco la rabbia nel pesante nerf dedicato all'incudine (è toccato anche alla macchina degli dèi) ma vi invito a non scoraggiarvi... e a unirvi a noi Figli degli Antichi quando marceremo sulla casa di Jeremy Vetock. La fase successiva sarà andare a trovare Matt Ward con i resti del suo collega in bella vista e invitarlo educatamente a scrivere dei LdE per noi
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MessaggioTitolo: Re: Nani   Nani - Pagina 18 Icon_minitimeVen Feb 14, 2014 4:01 pm

Rettile ripeto con il LdE in mano cercherò le soluzioni più competitive (come ho sempre fatto)...ma rimane comunque molta amarezza perchè GW aveva tutti gli strumenti per fare bene, e ancora una volta ha deluso...
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